When Promises Turn to Pitfalls: A Freelancer’s Eye-Opening Journey
Freelancing offers freedom and flexibility, but it can also come with unexpected challenges—especially when business promises start to fall apart.
In this episode, Gab and Gelo discuss lessons from real freelancing experiences including how to establish clear expectations, the importance of written agreements, and the need to set boundaries with clients and partners.
From defining the scope of work upfront to knowing when to say no, this conversation provides practical advice that can help you avoid common pitfalls and protect your time and energy. If you want to learn how to navigate freelancing with more confidence and fewer surprises, this episode is for you.
Today's episode is also particularly meaningful as we reveal an intriguing story from one of our SEO Kwentuhan letter senders. She shares an inspiring and insightful experience from her journey in the SEO industry.
We encourage you to take a moment to read her story below.
" Hi Coach!
I saw your post sa discord and naisip ko pong ma share din 'tong experience ko recently.
Bka may mapulot na learnings yung mga kapwa natin freelancers.
My story po started sa isang community, TL po ko sa isang community and we're helping freelancers to learn about ____ skill
(di ko na sasabihin kc nasa 28k po members namin, lagot kay coach pag sumikat kami ehehehe).
Sa story ko po di po yung coach ang issue ko, mabait coach namin and nalearn ko maging freelancer, and other technical skills from her. And super nag grow po ko sa kanya.
(Yung bad experience ko po is with my co Team Leader inside the course)
Me as a freelancer, tahimik naman po yung life ko and I'm happy earning ng tama lang.
May naging kasama kami as TL na 'SEO Expert'. To be honest, na inspire ako to learn about SEO dahil sa kanya. Though Im happy naman na as a copywriter pero na challenge ang nag open yung interest ko into DM na.
I enrolled sa course nio coach Gab, kc nagkaron na ko ng client na aligned na sa SEO tasks.
Until she asked for help to put up her business.
Her business is an agency plus may digital product course.
I left sa 'big' community namin, saglit kong iniwan yung coach namin na nag help and groom sakin to become TL, and I chose to help her muna (lets call her SEO Expert Gurl nalang po).
Kinuha nia kong Project manager, SMM, SEO copywriter, facilitator ng course and taga guide ng students kasi may Internship for VA's din syang inooffer. In short (all around)
At first happy kc maganda yung offer and all.
25k monthly plus percentage sa mga mag eenroll sa course. Plus partnership daw po kami sa business na yun.
Di ba ang ganda ng promise.
Goal ko that time is to help her as a friend, di ko naman na goal yung salary, mas after ako sa isa pang offer which is she'll help me sa SEO practice plus yung may client sya na ibibigay once na may ma book para sa agency nia. Yan ang offer sakin and later on with my co TL's sa dati namin community, naisama na din nia sa new comuunity nia.
Ang offer po pala nia sa mga mag eenroll sa course nia is VA internship + opportunity to have client kasi agency din sya.
Kahit enrolled na po ko sa course nio coach Gab, and may 3 client na ko sa SEO tasks that time...
Still gusto ko pa den mag praktis sa kanya, and maging intern nia for SEO tasks.
Learning for me and opportunity po saken kc nga "SEO Expert" sya, its a privilege for me.
For almost 3 months, me together with other TL's na na encourage nia to help her out to build her business, ay nandon to support.
We even have enrollees na din from our previous community na lumipat na to her new community na nagsipag enroll kasi nga daw nandon daw kaming mga TL's nila and they trusted us ever since dun sa kabilang community pa..
(late na namin nalaman na PM nia and sinisiraan yung coach namin just to gain yung trust ng mga students sa course don sa kabila)
At first ok pa sya, pero naging hindi na healthy, kc naging micromanage na sya, to think na wala namang sahod yung buong team, nag wowork kami daily from Mon-Sunday. Ako almost 10-12 hours na ko just to help her and the students to assist. Pero she demands more.
Nagpasahod sya ng 8k saming TL's pero 1 time lang at masama pa loob, sabi nia di pa daw dapat sya magpapasahod.
To think na may sale naman sya na 200k in peso, in span of 3+ weeks, with student and client na sya. Kahit man lang pang pakonswelo baket ayaw nia magpasahod. Well, di ko yun ininda noon, pero dumami na uyng demands, nakakalunod na yung task, and patawag sya ng patawag ng meetings, Sunday nia pa tinataon and 4-6 hours gusto nia lang puro brainstorming.
Nakaksama ng loob parang namamalimos pa kami. Pero still ok lang kc inintindi nalang.
Pero ang di ko na matiis is yung treatment. Gusto nia mag live, then hinahanap nia yung buong team, maaga pa kc yung call time 30minutes bago mag live. Nag la live den kc sya...
Ang dami niang sinabi kc nagpapanic sya, di daw nia kayang mag live na walang assist sa kanya etc.
Tapos walang mag checheerlead sa live nia. In short, I walked out before mag live, sabi ko di namin deserve yung ganong treatment, di man lang naisip na bumabyahe mga tao nia, may sakit yung isa and pinilit maka attend nung iba just before she goes live. Present yung buong team to support her, before she goes live.
For me kc, di mo naman pinapasahod mga tao mo tapos ang demanding mo pa sa time namin.
Then I resigned, sa pagresign ko, ang daming nega na binato saken, kesyo di daw maganda work ko and all. Ang daming paninira na ginawa nia and issues na brinought up.
To the point na ako pa sinisi nia kc daw ako nag push sa kanya na magbuild ng business nia, kaloka, I have to traceback pa tuloi kanino nanggaling yung idea ng business nia, at sino unang nag rach out at nagpatulong, to the point na nagpahanap pa sya ng mga freelancers na webdev saken. Tssskkk!
Masakit sya pero need to move on, Ang sabi nalang saken ng coach ko is to "Let go of everything and anything that is holding me back" Mirroring yung ginawa nia saken and all hatred na binato, di ko na pinansin.
I know in future, may tamang tao syang makakaharap sa attitude nia at hindi ako ang taong katapat nia. Plus ayokong magpapastress sa narcisstic behavior nia.
FYI: About the offer, di kc sya direct sumagot at hanngang sa madiin ko na sya na magsabi na ng true status, kung anong plan nia, magpapasahod or hindi, knowing na may sales naman. At may client kami, na di nia ibinibigay to think na more than 1 month na si client and hindi pa nia inaasikaso yung website ni client
Promises kc nia may benefits, SSS, Philhealth etc, pang Christmas party etc, kaya di pa magpapasahod ilalaan daw yun sa December na.
Kesyo may family daw sya syempre daw startup palang daw sya.
Di pala malinaw samen lahat yung offer. Then sabi nia din kc magpapasahod sya pag ma meet yung 500k monthly, later na namin na clear na pag hindi ma meet yung 500k, sa December na daw sya magpapasahod, and nung clinear ulet namin, pag di umabot sa 500k ang monthly sale, hindi pa din magpapasahod, so next year January na.
In short, di nia clear na wala palang sahod pag di ma meet yung quota na 500k monthly.
So kahit may sale na 200k, hindi pedeng sumahod kc di yun ung quota.
All promises including yung SEO internship training ko sa kanya, ay walang nangyari.
This happened recently, umalis ako ng September after kong mabuking yung kalokohan nia :-)
Ang promise samin is partners kami sa pagbuo, and sa sales mga partners ang treatment nia.
After nia magka sales, naiba na yung plans. She built a team na outside na di namin alam. Mga newbies, mga kamag anak pala nia, and she partnered na den sa isang local client na may agency. without our knowledge.
LESSON LEARNED:
May mga ganitong klaseng tao sa mundo ng freelancing, Beware nalang and learn from that experience.
Hope maka help and maka inspire sa iba.
As for me: Asar pa din and inis pero I take it as a learning experience nalang. I can help naman pala business owners to build their agency or other businesses nila, so why not I try to build on my own naman.
My status right now, I'm building an agency and we're getting clients na din naman. I've got a supportive team and a trusted freelancers na to back me up.
That experience is my wake up call and has built my confidence. Merong sunshine after rainy days po sa mga ganitong experiences. Positivity pa din ang nag peprevail.
Thank you coach Gab sa paganito nio po :-)
Godbless po! "
Once you've finished, it's time for you to listen to our discussion below and share to us your thoughts on this experience as well.
Gab highlights the importance of getting to know your business partner’s background and intentions before committing. Trust is important, but clear discussions and agreements are essential to avoid misunderstandings later on.
Both Gab and Gelo agree that formal, written contracts are vital to protect both parties. Even if you know someone well, having everything in "black and white" helps avoid confusion and ensures transparency in business dealings.
Gelo discusses how even difficult situations, like toxic work environments, can provide valuable learning experiences. It’s important to reflect on what went wrong and use those lessons to grow in your freelancing or business journey.
It’s crucial to clearly define the scope of work and set expectations from the beginning of any freelancing or business relationship to avoid confusion later on. Without clear communication, clients or partners may not understand the true cost or workload involved.
Setting boundaries with clients or team leaders—especially around working hours and personal time—is critical for maintaining a healthy work-life balance. Freelancers should communicate availability upfront to prevent being overwhelmed with unrealistic demands.
If you’re new to SEO or freelancing, it’s important to find a mentor to guide you through the learning process. Rushing into business partnerships or freelancing without proper guidance can lead to costly mistakes.
While unpaid internships can offer valuable learning opportunities, they can also be exploitative if not carefully managed. It’s important to ensure that the internship is truly beneficial and not just a way for the employer to take advantage of free labor.
Initial Experience in a Freelancer Community
Our freelancer started in a large community with 28,000 members. This community was a place for sharing knowledge and experiences. Here, they met a mentor who encouraged them to learn SEO.
Excited by the potential, they decided to leave the community to join this mentor in building an agency. The promise was bright, filled with visions of success and financial gain. They were promised a monthly revenue share and training in SEO.
The Promise of Partnership
At first, everything seemed perfect. The freelancer felt inspired and ready to dive into this new venture. The promise of earning 25,000 pesos per month and receiving SEO training was enticing. It felt like a dream come true.
However, as time passed, the reality of the partnership began to change. The initial excitement faded, replaced by overwhelming demands and unclear expectations. The freelancer soon realized that the dream partnership was turning into a nightmare.
Signs of a Toxic Environment
As the days turned into weeks, signs of a toxic environment became clear. The freelancer and their team were expected to work tirelessly from Monday to Sunday without pay. Despite the mentor's significant earnings, the team felt undervalued and overworked.
Micromanagement became a daily practice. Meetings stretched on for hours, often without clear purpose. This constant pressure began to take a toll on the freelancer's mental and emotional well-being.
Unrealistic Expectations and Overworking
Unrealistic expectations were set right from the start. The freelancer was told that their salary would depend on hitting a high sales target, which felt almost impossible. The workload increased, but the promised rewards did not materialize.
Working long hours without pay led to burnout. The freelancer felt trapped, wanting to support their mentor while also realizing their own limits. The feeling of being taken advantage of became overwhelming.
Despite the hardships, the freelancer continued to push through, hoping things would improve. They showed up even when sick, prioritizing the team's needs over their own well-being. This dedication, however, was met with more demands rather than appreciation.
The Role of Clear Communication
Clear communication is vital in freelancing. It sets the stage for expectations and responsibilities. Without it, misunderstandings can lead to frustration and conflict.
In the freelancer's story, the lack of communication was a significant issue. The mentor's demands were not clearly stated, which caused confusion. This resulted in the freelancer feeling overwhelmed and undervalued.
To prevent such scenarios, it is essential to communicate openly. Discuss your roles, deadlines, and expectations from the start. Regular check-ins can help keep everyone on the same page.
Techniques for Effective Communication
Be Direct: Avoid vague statements. Clearly express what you need and expect.
Use Written Communication: Emails and messages can provide a record of discussions, reducing misunderstandings.
Ask Questions: If something is unclear, don’t hesitate to ask for clarification.
Summarize Discussions: At the end of meetings, summarize what was discussed to ensure everyone agrees.
Importance of Written Agreements
Written agreements are crucial in any freelance work. They serve as a reference for both parties, outlining what is expected. This can protect you from potential conflicts later.
In the freelancer's case, the absence of a formal contract allowed for misunderstandings. The promises made were verbal, leading to confusion about pay and responsibilities.
Always document agreements. This includes payment terms, project scope, and deadlines. A written agreement ensures that all parties are accountable.
What to Include in a Written Agreement
Scope of Work: Clearly define what tasks will be completed.
Payment Terms: Specify how much and when you will be paid.
Deadlines: Include due dates for deliverables.
Termination Clause: Outline how either party can end the agreement.
Setting Boundaries with Clients
Setting boundaries is essential for maintaining a healthy freelancer-client relationship. It helps manage expectations and protects your time.
In the freelancer's journey, boundaries were not established. This led to working long hours without pay and constant micromanagement. To avoid this, freelancers must be clear about their availability and limits.
Communicate your working hours and stick to them. Let clients know when you are available for meetings or work. This helps prevent burnout and maintains a healthy work-life balance.
Tips for Setting Boundaries
Define Your Working Hours: Clearly state when you are available to work.
Limit Communication Outside Work Hours: Avoid responding to emails or messages during your personal time.
Discuss Expectations Early: Talk about what you can and cannot do before starting a project.
Be Firm but Polite: If a client crosses a boundary, remind them of your agreed limits.
Handling Micromanagement
Micromanagement can be frustrating. It often leads to a lack of trust and can hinder productivity. Freelancers must find ways to address this issue effectively.
In the freelancer's experience, constant oversight from the mentor created a toxic atmosphere. Instead of fostering independence, it stifled creativity and motivation.
To handle micromanagement, it’s important to communicate your capabilities. Show the client that you can manage your tasks without constant supervision.
Strategies to Address Micromanagement
Proactively Update Clients: Regularly share progress reports to reassure them.
Request Autonomy: Politely ask for more freedom in how you complete tasks.
Set Clear Goals: Agree on objectives and let them know you can achieve them independently.
Seek Feedback: Ask for constructive feedback instead of constant check-ins.
Learning from Negative Experiences
Every negative experience can be a learning opportunity. It is crucial to reflect on what went wrong and how to improve in the future.
The freelancer learned valuable lessons from their tough experience. They realized the importance of clear communication, written agreements, and setting boundaries.
Instead of dwelling on the past, they chose to focus on personal growth. This mindset can help freelancers bounce back stronger and more prepared for future challenges.
How to Turn Negative Experiences into Growth
Reflect on the Situation: Take time to think about what happened and why.
Identify Key Lessons: Write down what you learned from the experience.
Make a Plan: Develop strategies to avoid similar situations in the future.
Seek Support: Talk to mentors or peers who can provide guidance.
The Importance of Self-Reflection
Self-reflection is key for freelancers to grow. It helps you understand your experiences and feelings. After facing challenges, taking time to think about what happened can lead to valuable insights.
In the freelancer's story, self-reflection played a big role in their journey. They learned to recognize their limits and the importance of setting boundaries. By reflecting on their experiences, they could identify what went wrong and what to do differently in the future.
Self-reflection can also boost confidence. When you understand your strengths and weaknesses, you can make better decisions. This process helps you align your goals with your actions, making your freelance career more fulfilling.
How to Practice Self-Reflection
Journaling: Write down your thoughts and feelings regularly. This can help clarify your experiences.
Ask Questions: Consider questions like, "What did I learn from this situation?" or "How can I improve next time?"
Seek Feedback: Talk to trusted peers or mentors who can provide an outside perspective on your work.
Set Time Aside: Dedicate time each week to reflect on your progress and challenges.
Finding a Mentor in Freelancing
A mentor can be a game-changer in your freelance career. They provide guidance, support, and valuable knowledge. Having someone experienced can help you avoid common pitfalls.
The freelancer in our story initially found a mentor who inspired them to learn SEO. This relationship was crucial in their early days. However, it’s important to choose mentors wisely.
A good mentor not only shares knowledge but also respects your boundaries and encourages your growth. They help you navigate challenges while empowering you to make your own decisions.
Tips for Finding the Right Mentor
Look for Experience: Choose someone who has been through similar challenges and can offer practical advice.
Check Compatibility: Make sure your values align. A mentor should support your goals and aspirations.
Be Open: Be ready to accept feedback and learn from your mentor's experiences.
Build a Relationship: Mentorship is a two-way street. Invest time in building a strong, respectful relationship.
The Reality of Unpaid Internships
Unpaid internships are common in many industries, including freelancing. While they can offer valuable experience, they often come with risks. It’s essential to weigh the pros and cons before committing to one.
In the freelancer's story, they faced a situation where their hard work was not compensated. This experience highlighted the potential downsides of unpaid arrangements. Many freelancers may feel pressured to accept unpaid internships for the experience, but it’s crucial to know your worth.
Before taking on an unpaid internship, consider the following factors. Ask yourself if the experience will truly benefit your career or if it's just a way to exploit your skills.
Factors to Consider About Unpaid Internships
Learning Opportunities: Will you gain skills and knowledge that are valuable for your career?
Time Commitment: How much time will you be expected to dedicate? Will it interfere with paid work?
Future Opportunities: Is there a chance of getting a paid position after the internship?
Workload vs. Compensation: Are the expectations reasonable, or will you be overworked without pay?
Final Thoughts on Freelancing Challenges
Freelancing comes with unique challenges that can be tough to navigate. Each experience, good or bad, teaches us valuable lessons. The key is to learn from these experiences and continue moving forward.
The freelancer's journey serves as a reminder of the importance of clear agreements, communication, and self-awareness. By addressing challenges head-on, freelancers can build more successful and fulfilling careers.
As you progress in your freelance journey, remember to stay adaptable. The ability to learn from setbacks will help you grow stronger and more resilient.
Steps to Overcome Freelancing Challenges
Stay Informed: Keep learning about your industry and the best practices to follow.
Network: Connect with other freelancers to share experiences and advice.
Set Clear Goals: Establish what you want to achieve and create a plan to reach those goals.
Prioritize Self-Care: Make sure to take care of your mental and physical health.
Quotable Quotes
1. "Sometimes, it's easy to get caught up in the excitement of a new partnership. But remember, just because someone seems trustworthy doesn’t mean they have your best interests at heart. Protect yourself with clear, formal agreements." - Gelo 2. "A business partnership should start with more than just trust. It's about having open conversations, setting expectations, and making sure everyone is on the same page. Without clear agreements, the best intentions can still lead to problems." - Gab 3. "When you're entering a business relationship, take the time to get everything in writing. Verbal agreements might feel easier, but they can easily be forgotten or misinterpreted. A clear contract will help both sides succeed and avoid potential issues." - Gab 4. "As a freelancer, you need to protect your time. Long working hours without compensation are unsustainable. If you're working for free or at a low rate, make sure you're actually learning and growing, not just being taken advantage of." - Gelo 5. "Learning the ropes of SEO or any new skill takes time, but don't rush into it without proper guidance. Find a mentor who can guide you, so you don’t make the same mistakes that others have made before you." - Gelo 6. "In any job, you have to draw the line between work and personal life. Be clear about your availability and set boundaries. A healthy work-life balance isn’t just a luxury—it’s essential for long-term success." - Gab
What's Next
As we wrap up this episode, it’s clear that the lessons from today's discussion are essential for anyone navigating the world of freelancing or business partnerships. From setting clear expectations and formalizing agreements to protecting your time and learning from past challenges, these insights can make all the difference in ensuring your journey is both productive and fulfilling.
Take a moment to reflect on these key takeaways. How can you apply them to your own work or relationships? Are there boundaries or agreements that need to be put in place to protect your interests? Whether you're just starting out or looking to level up, these principles will serve as your foundation for success.
Be sure to tune in to the next episode where we'll explore more valuable strategies and real-life experiences to help you thrive in the freelancing world. Until then, remember that learning from your experiences—and from others—will always be the key to growth. See you next time.
Transcript Summary
00:00 - 00:50 Gab:The episode opens with Coach Gab welcoming listeners to a new episode of SEO Kwentuhan, mentioning a special story from one of their listeners.
Gab: Introduces the episode as a special feature and mentions that Coach Gelo will be joining him for this story.
Gelo: Explains that this episode is the first in a series called SEO Freelancers Story. It’s a collection of real-life experiences shared by freelancers, and this specific story is from a listener who encountered challenges in the freelancing world. Gelo teases that the full details are available on their website and Facebook page.
Gab: Further explains that they’ll be discussing the story in a summarized format.
01:00 - 03:08 Gelo: Reads out a brief email from a listener, summarizing their freelancing journey. The listener shares their experience as a team leader (TL) in a community of 28,000 members. They were encouraged by a co-TL, "SEO Expert Girl," to dive into SEO. This led them to leave the community to join her in building her agency, with promises of a 25,000 monthly salary, revenue share, and SEO training.
Gelo: Continues reading, detailing how things quickly turned toxic. Despite the promise of a salary and training, the listener’s new boss demanded long hours, sometimes from Monday to Sunday, without pay. The boss earned a significant amount (200,000 in sales) but only provided an 8,000 payout. There was also pressure to meet an unrealistic 500,000 sales quota for salary, which was unclear from the beginning.
Gelo: The listener shares more about the toxic work environment, where the SEO Expert Girl treated the team poorly, demanding meetings that lasted 4-6 hours and even calling out team members for minor things like being sick or traveling to support her. The listener eventually resigned, and the SEO Expert Girl spread negativity, blaming them for the struggles of the business. Despite the hardship, the listener feels they’ve learned from the experience and moved on.
03:08 - 04:44 Gab: Reacts to the story, expressing empathy for the listener’s experience. He reflects on how such situations can happen in freelancing, especially when someone is too trusting of a business partner without knowing the full scope of the arrangement.
Gelo: Asks Gab what lessons can be drawn from the listener’s experience. Gab answers, emphasizing the importance of thoroughly vetting potential business partners before committing to a partnership, even if they appear trustworthy at first.
Gab: Continues, stating that while it’s easier to trust someone you know (like his wife, for example), in freelancing and business partnerships, it's crucial to understand the person’s background and intentions. He stresses that business partnerships should always start with clear discussions and agreements.
04:44 - 06:43 Gab: Advises that one should have several meetings and clearly outline the responsibilities and returns expected in any business partnership. He reflects on his own experiences with agency partnerships, where clear contracts and regular meetings were essential to ensure everyone understood their roles and obligations.
Gab: Discusses the importance of formal agreements, sharing that his experience with partnerships has always been with clear written contracts that help define roles and expectations. He mentions how he and his business partners have always worked together to ensure the partnership’s success.
Gab: Concludes the section by underscoring that clear, written contracts are essential in freelancing and business relationships, to avoid misunderstandings and to ensure that everyone is on the same page regarding deliverables and expectations.
06:43 - 07:38 Gelo: Emphasizes the need to understand the terms of an agreement before moving forward. He shares that even if you know the person, it’s important to protect your interests with formal contracts to prevent future issues.
Gab: Reiterates that while it’s great to feel like you know someone well, it’s still crucial to make sure that everything is clearly outlined and agreed upon before committing to anything significant.
Gelo: Reflects on how easy it is to get caught up in the excitement of a new partnership, especially when the person seems trustworthy, but he warns that not every partnership, even with close contacts, turns out to be as expected. He stresses the importance of being cautious and learning from past experiences.
07:38 - 08:40 Gab: Agrees, highlighting the importance of self-learning and protecting oneself in the business world.
Gelo: Then brings up the importance of having written agreements, stressing that verbal agreements can often be unreliable, as demonstrated by the listener’s story.
Gab: Concurs, stating that many freelancers forget the importance of formalizing agreements. He suggests that they might rush into things without proper contracts because of trust or excitement but that it’s always better to take the time to protect one’s business and personal interests.
Gab: Further discusses how, in the listener’s case, the lack of a formal contract left them vulnerable. He emphasizes that even if the people involved seem like friends or trustworthy, the lack of clear documentation can cause major problems down the road.
08:41 - 10:01 Gelo: Agrees, and mentions that, as freelancers, they sometimes find themselves in situations where an informal agreement or handshake deal turns into a problematic situation because of unclear expectations. He shares his own experiences with business relationships and emphasizes the need for documentation and legal protection.
Gab: Concludes by noting that contracts, such as service contracts, are crucial to ensure that both parties are protected, especially in scenarios where deliverables and expectations are involved. He talks about how such agreements help define the scope of work, set deadlines, and provide clear boundaries to avoid misunderstandings.
Gab: Gives a reminder of the importance of having agreements in place to protect freelancers from situations like the one shared in the story. Without contracts, it's easy to encounter problems that can be avoided with proper documentation.
10:01 - 10:32 Gab: Talks about the importance of having a clear and formal agreement (a contract), emphasizing that this should be in "black and white" to avoid misunderstandings. He explains that having a contract is critical for legal clarity.
Gelo: Agrees, stressing that a contract must be in black and white to ensure transparency and clarity in business dealings.
Gelo: Shares that in a partnership, there should be clear terms and expectations. He mentions that the project didn’t have any clear percentage breakdown or formal agreement. He adds that while there was talk about a digital product and expertise, things weren't fully settled.
10:33 - 12:28 Gab: Further explains that the arrangement seemed to be about a fixed monthly income, plus commission. He mentions that it could have been more clear, especially for something related to digital products.
Gelo: Reflects on how the situation became unclear and discusses how important it is to have clear contracts to manage expectations, particularly when the team or leadership is involved in setting goals and tasks.
Gab: Shares from his experience, stating that one of the most important things to do in the initial meeting is to define the scope of work. This sets clear expectations for the team or client so that unrealistic demands don’t emerge later on. He mentions the importance of setting boundaries early in the process.
Gab: Continues, emphasizing the need to clarify the hours of work and the tasks expected in the scope of work. He stresses that setting these expectations early can avoid confusion later, especially when it comes to bigger projects or clients with significant demands.
Gab: He talks about how understanding the scope of work for different types of tasks is crucial. Sometimes, clients may not fully understand what’s required, especially when it involves a larger team or a more complex project, like SEO for big brands.
12:28 - 14:31 Gab: Again underscores the need to clarify the scope of work. He mentions that, without clear communication, clients may not understand the cost or the workload involved in tasks, leading to confusion or dissatisfaction.
Gab: Reminds that a formal agreement should set these boundaries, particularly in the early stages of collaboration. Gelo: Provides an example of a problematic situation where a team leader (referred to as "Sender") set unrealistic expectations for the team. Gelo explains that at first, everything seemed fine, but later the demands became excessive. He mentions long working hours, including weekends, with no additional compensation.
Gelo: He continues the story, explaining that despite a huge sale (worth 200,000 pesos), Sender still demanded more work from the team. Gelo describes how the team leader's expectations became unreasonable, with long meetings on Sundays that were not even properly compensated.
Gelo: Emphasizes that the demands became overwhelming, especially with 4 to 6-hour meetings that seemed more like brainstorming sessions. He points out how difficult it was to balance these work expectations with personal time.
14:40 - 16:21 Gelo: Further discusses the increasing pressure and how Sender’s expectations escalated despite no increase in pay or reward. He highlights the importance of setting boundaries and not being forced to give in to unrealistic demands.
Gab: Discusses his own experiences with similar situations, sharing that when he started in SEO, he too would often work weekends despite receiving low pay. He mentions that learning the process was important, but that over time, this pattern became unsustainable.
Gab: Explains that when he began in SEO, he had a similar experience of working long hours and learning by doing. He recognizes that Sender’s situation mirrors his own early career struggles.
Gelo: Reflects on the situation and shares how this became a learning experience. Sender, despite the challenging work environment, eventually came to understand the realities of SEO. Gelo suggests that this kind of learning can be valuable, especially in professional growth.
16:22 - 17:27 Gab: Shares his advice on how to set boundaries with a demanding manager or team leader. He talks about the importance of clearly communicating availability and expectations. He gives an example from his own work, where he set strict availability hours with clients, which helped maintain a work-life balance.
Gab: He further advises setting clear expectations about the hours you are available, especially when it comes to weekends or family time. Gab stresses that clear communication helps avoid misunderstandings about work hours and personal time.
18:26 - 19:47 Gelo: Talks about how managing client expectations is key to maintaining healthy relationships. He emphasizes that boundaries must be set, especially when it comes to meetings and deliverables, and that you must protect your personal time while balancing work commitments.
Gelo: Wraps up the discussion on work-life balance by highlighting how managing boundaries and expectations can prevent work from overwhelming personal life. He reflects on how Sundays, especially, should be preserved as family time.
19:47 - 20:28 Gab: Discusses the challenges and lessons learned from a negative experience related to learning SEO. Gab reflects on how this person, whom they are advising, has been trying to upskill through social media and SEO. Gab highlights that this individual should seek a mentor to guide them properly, as many people tend to make mistakes when they don't have proper mentorship. The advice includes taking the time to understand SEO properly and not rush into it without proper guidance.
Gab: Continues to discuss how this person, who was involved in a partnership, should move forward after experiencing a setback. Gab advises that they should move on from the partnership, as it seems to be not working well. The key suggestion is that the individual should focus on growth and improvement, even after a bad partnership.
20:28 - 21:36 Gelo: Appreciates the individual’s realization that, despite the pain, they need to let go of the things that are holding them back. Gelo shares the personal insight of their own coach, who advised them to "let go of everything that is holding me back." Gelo points out that the person seems to be maturing by focusing on what they can control instead of blaming others. Gelo emphasizes the importance of emotional resilience, letting go of hatred, and recognizing that not everything works out as planned.
Gelo: Further discusses how the person in question should focus on what they can control rather than worrying about the behaviors or actions of others, especially those involved in their partnership. They acknowledge that things did not work out with this particular person and that it's important to move on from toxic relationships.
21:36 - 22:11 Gelo: Praises the person for courageously sharing their experience and reaching out for advice. They recognize that this situation is unfortunately common in the industry and that shedding light on it helps others learn from such experiences. Gelo also stresses that the intent is not to gossip, but rather to inform and raise awareness about such challenges in the SEO community.
Gab: Shifts focus to those who are just starting to learn SEO. They acknowledge that many beginners face similar struggles and don't always know what the right steps are. This makes them vulnerable to potentially misleading advice or unproductive practices. Gab stresses the importance of awareness for newcomers and advises them to be cautious and ensure they are learning from reliable sources.
22:11 - 23:57 Gab: Shares their observations on SEO interns working for free in exchange for learning opportunities. They mention that while this can be a win-win situation if the intern is genuinely learning, there’s a potential danger when the situation becomes exploitative. Gab mentions that working for long hours, such as 4-6 hours on weekends, without a clear contract or understanding of compensation is not sustainable. They caution against putting oneself in a position where the workload becomes unhealthy and disproportionately benefits the employer.
Gelo: Discusses the ethics of paid vs. unpaid internships. They reflect on how some companies offer unpaid internships with the promise of training, while others claim to pay interns. Gelo emphasizes the importance of understanding the logic behind internships and whether or not it is truly a valuable opportunity. There’s an open question on whether internships should be compensated or if they are only valuable for the experience.
24:04 - 25:07 Gab: Brings up a comparison to nursing internships, where hospitals typically do not pay interns but offer them training in exchange for work. Gab notes that this model is common in industries like healthcare but acknowledges that not all industries operate the same way. The discussion veers into whether or not this model is applicable to SEO internships, as it is not always clear-cut.
Gelo: Encourages listeners to share their own SEO experiences and internship stories to help create a more transparent and supportive community. They stress the importance of sharing knowledge and lessons learned to help others avoid the same mistakes. Gelo mentions that they would be happy to read and discuss listeners' stories in future episodes.
25:08 - 26:24 Gab: Promotes their SEO technical course and upcoming discounts, encouraging listeners to join their course by the end of the year. They also mention their SEO-related merchandise, highlighting a special sale offer with free shipping. Gab explains that the products available for sale feature various designs that can be useful for conferences and meetings.
Gab: Explains that part of the proceeds from the sale of their merchandise will go towards charity. They share that 50% of the profits from the sales made between December and January will be donated to a charity event. Gab encourages listeners to support their efforts in helping others while also gaining useful SEO knowledge and products.
Gelo: Thanks listeners for their support and encourages them to continue engaging with the content. They close the episode by expressing hope that the SEO stories shared will help others navigate the industry better. The episode ends with a final shout-out to listeners, urging them to send in their experiences and to stay tuned for the next episode.
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