Managing an SEO team comes with its challenges, especially when you need to balance technical expertise with creative problem-solving. If you're just starting to build your team or you're looking for ways to improve your current setup, we cover the essential steps and strategies that can make a real difference.
Tune in for a practical, no-nonsense guide to creating a team that not only works well together but thrives in the fast-moving world of SEO.
The episode focuses on a more approachable and relatable take on SEO, particularly aimed at freelancers and those starting SEO agencies, making the industry more accessible.
Fervil shares how building a team was crucial for his growth. Initially, he tried to manage everything solo but realized that having a team, especially a partner, was essential to avoid burnout and scale effectively.
Fervil advises that freelancers should hire when they have enough work and income to support a team. Hiring should align with the business's capacity, so it's important to first understand what tasks need help and when the time is right to scale.
When hiring an SEO VA, Fervil emphasizes that while technical skills are important, soft skills like reliability, trustworthiness, and adaptability are what really matter in the long run.
Fervil shares how his first hire went from a project-based arrangement to a full-time role as his business grew, highlighting the importance of evolving work structures as your business needs change.
Fervil stresses that while technical skills are important, being teachable and open to feedback is essential for success in SEO. Team members should be willing to learn and adapt, especially in a field that evolves quickly.
Although Fervil’s current focus isn’t hands-on training due to time constraints, he plans to create more structured training and resources in the future. His goal is to build an SEO learning platform to help beginners and support his growing team.
Fervil’s agency uses a department-based structure to manage SEO tasks (like content, technical SEO, and link building). Dividing responsibilities helps the team work more efficiently and maintain a high standard across different aspects of SEO.
Their agency deals with conflicts by promoting open communication and setting up guidelines early on. If disagreements arise, they encourage team members to address issues transparently, ensuring a collaborative work environment.
Fervil highlights the value of 1-on-1 meetings for aligning team members with the agency’s goals and understanding their personal aspirations. This helps guide their growth and ensures that the team is moving in the same direction.
Fervil emphasizes that growing a business involves more than just starting out. As you scale, you need to handle different verticals like PPC, content, SEO, and client management. It’s crucial to clearly define what you want before scaling and to understand that managing a team and distributing tasks becomes more complex as the business grows.
Fervil talks about how one “rotten apple” in the team can disrupt the entire group, highlighting the need for clear communication and well-defined team hierarchies. He stresses that as businesses expand, effective cross-communication within teams and between leaders becomes vital to keep everything running smoothly.
In freelancing, it’s not about getting paid more right away. It’s about proving to yourself that you can build something and provide for your family. - Fervil
Building an SEO team is all about making the right connections—finding the right people who share your vision and passion for the work. - Gab
SEO isn't dead. It’s evolving, but the core principles remain. If you focus on the fundamentals, you’ll always be relevant in this industry. - Fervil
Running an agency isn’t a solo mission. It’s about collaboration, and realizing that you need a solid team behind you to thrive. - Fervil
The key to scaling your business isn’t just hiring more people—it’s knowing when the time is right and having the income to support your team. - Fervil
When the workload becomes too much for one person, it’s time to bring in someone else. That’s how you scale—one step at a time, making sure you have the right people to handle the growth. - Fervil
Hiring is not just about filling a position. It's about finding someone who can learn, grow, and contribute to the bigger picture of your agency's success. - Gab
A good SEO VA isn’t just technically skilled. They need to be resourceful, reliable, and most importantly, willing to learn. Those soft skills make all the difference in the long run. - Fervil
When it comes to conflicts, the best approach is to be proactive. Set clear guidelines from the start, and create a safe space for open dialogue. It’s all about addressing issues early before they escalate. - Fervil
Building an agency isn’t just about starting. It’s about knowing what you truly want, understanding how to scale, and being ready to adapt as your business grows. - Fervil
In business, it’s not just about the skills you bring. It’s about how you manage the complexities—like team dynamics, communication, and setting the right structure for growth. If you get that right, success will follow. - Fervil
As you reflect on the insights shared in this episode, think about where you are on your own SEO journey. Are you ready to scale your freelance business? Have you considered the importance of building a reliable team and fostering a collaborative environment? Fervil’s advice on hiring strategically, prioritizing soft skills, and managing team dynamics is invaluable for anyone looking to grow their agency while maintaining balance.
The road to scaling an SEO business is complex, but with the right mindset and team in place, it becomes not just achievable, but exciting.
Stay tuned for the next episode where we’ll tackle more practical strategies and real-life lessons to help you continue growing with confidence.
Until then, take a moment to reflect on what steps you can take next in your journey—and remember, it’s all about building the right foundation, one step at a time.
00:00 - 00:38
Gab: Opens the episode of the SEO Kuentuhan podcast, introducing it as a fun and lighter take on SEO. He mentions that he’s joined by a friend, Fervil, a respected figure in the SEO industry who is known for his work in SEO conferences and mentorships. He then invites Fervil to join the conversation.
Gab: Officially introduces Fervil and welcomes him to the podcast, sharing his excitement about the discussion.
Fervil: Thanks Gab for the invitation and gives a quick greeting.
Gab: Continues the conversation, talking about how this episode will focus on the lighter side of SEO.
Fervil: Mentions that the podcast is going to be focused on the lighter side of SEO.
00:39 - 03:58
Gab: Elaborates that the podcast will cover relatable topics for freelancers and those starting SEO agencies, with the goal of helping listeners connect with the industry in an approachable way.
Gab: Brings up the main topic for today’s discussion: building and managing an SEO team, from hiring to motivation.
Fervil: Expresses his enthusiasm for the topic, calling it a “broad topic.”
Gab: Explains how many freelancers aspire to eventually start their own agencies, and this conversation will be relevant for anyone looking to build or manage a team.
Gab: Asks Fervil how he first got introduced to the SEO industry.
Fervil: Shares his background, explaining that he’s from the southern Philippines (Mindanao) and now lives in Iligan City. He tells how, back in 2010, he first learned about freelancing, which at the time was referred to as "online jobs."
Fervil: He recalls how he initially doubted the legitimacy of online work but was introduced to freelancing when his friend set up a profile on Odesk (now Upwork). Fervil started helping his friend with client projects.
Fervil: He talks about how he became a protégé to his friend and eventually joined Odesk to start his own freelancing journey. He mentions how, at the time, he was just starting his career in freelancing while still in his hometown of Jansen.
Fervil talks about his desire for a more stable income, not necessarily for a higher pay grade, but to prove to himself that he could succeed as a freelancer and contribute to his family. He recalls how he eventually started working for himself and built his own profile on Upwork, continuing the journey he started with his friend.
03:58 - 06:58
Gab: Confirms that Fervil’s first steps into freelancing were through Upwork.
Fervil: Shares how he gradually grew his freelancing business, moving from low-paying gigs (like $3-$4 per hour) to more steady projects as his experience grew. He acknowledges how SEO, despite constant changes, continues to thrive.
Fervil: He emphasizes that SEO is not dead, contrary to what some people claim. SEO has adapted over time, and the fundamentals remain crucial to online marketing success.
Fervil: Shares that, after a decade in the industry, he now runs an SEO outsourcing agency in Iligan City, managing a team of 15-20 people depending on project volume. He reflects on how his business has grown.
Fervil: Talks about the challenges of running an agency, including realizing that it’s not always easy working alone. He mentions that after running a solo operation for a while, he realized the importance of teamwork. He continues, explaining how, at some point, he learned that managing an agency requires collaboration, and it’s important to involve partners to avoid burnout.
Gab: Asks Fervil if his wife is involved in the agency.
Fervil: Explains that his wife is involved, focusing on finance and HR. He notes that she wasn’t originally involved in the day-to-day operations but now helps with operations as well.
Gab: Acknowledges this partnership.
06:58 - 09:17
Fervil: He elaborates that while he handles the marketing side and client-facing roles, his wife is more involved in the internal operations, ensuring the business runs smoothly from the back end.
Gab: Reflects on how important it is to have a partner involved when building an agency.
Gab: Adds that for an agency to thrive, it’s essential to have a solid partner who can share the workload, especially when it comes to leadership and management.
Fervil: Agrees, sharing that many SEO agencies he knows operate on a team model with clear roles for each partner. He stresses that working alone or without help can hinder growth. He mentions his realization that involving his wife in the business was a key factor in their success.
Fervil: Talks about how he initially underestimated the importance of collaboration and was reluctant to involve his wife, but later realized how crucial her support was.
Gab: Adds that he also involved his wife in the agency and credits her with handling a large portion of the operations, noting how important it is to have that kind of partnership.
Gab: Humorously mentions that his wife also serves as their videographer.
Fervil: Laughs and agrees.
Gab: Thanks Fervil for sharing his experience and transitions to the next topic.
09:17 - 11:41
Fervil: Begins discussing the indicators that show when a freelancer or entrepreneur is ready to build an SEO team. He talks about his own journey and the lessons he learned along the way. He reflects on his previous experience with a different agency that didn’t take off and how it taught him the importance of capacity, both in terms of work and income, before hiring people.
Fervil: Talks about how he realized the need for a team when his workload became too much to handle alone. He mentions the importance of having sufficient income to sustain a team before making hires. He discusses how he first hired a project-based assistant and then transitioned to hiring full-time employees as his business grew and his needs evolved.
Fervil: Concludes by explaining that hiring should be based on project needs and capacity. Once the business is ready for the next step, it’s time to start building a team to scale operations.
11:43 - 14:06
Fervil: Discusses his first hire. He explains how he initially kept control of everything in the agency, including work, meetings, and reporting. His first hire focused on tasks for a design agency serving realtors in the US. Over time, he expanded the team as the workload increased.
Fervil: Elaborates on how the first hire grew into a key team member. As the workload became too much for one person, he decided to bring on a second hire. This was a crucial moment in scaling up operations and ensuring the team could handle more projects.
Fervil: Mentions hiring another person once the first hire couldn't handle the workload. This allowed the agency to grow even further.
Gab: Summarizes Fervil's process: After realizing the workload was growing, Fervil hired an SEO VA (Virtual Assistant) to handle tasks. He trained the VA from the ground up and gave them responsibility over various tasks, eventually transitioning to a more structured relationship.
Fervil: Shares a personal story about his first hire. He had initially worked with this person in the past but lost contact. After reconnecting years later, he hired them again for SEO work, where they worked together on SEO-related projects.
Gab: Asks if Fervil started paying his first hire based on a project or hourly rate, and if he eventually transitioned them to a full-time role.
Fervil: Confirms that the arrangement evolved from project-based work to a monthly retainer model. As the workload grew, they transitioned to a more formal working structure, expanding the scope of tasks and responsibilities for the hire.
14:07 - 15:54
Gab: Asks Fervil what skills should be looked for when hiring an SEO VA, particularly if someone is interested in doing similar work.
Fervil: Emphasizes the importance of technical savvy. He suggests that a good SEO VA should be capable of handling various technical aspects of SEO and should have strong research skills. He also mentions that the ability to quickly learn and adapt is key.
Fervil: Continues by explaining that a skilled SEO VA should be resourceful and able to perform thorough research, which is crucial for SEO tasks. While technical skills are important, soft skills like being resourceful and dependable matter a lot more in the long term.
Fervil: Elaborates on the importance of trust, saying that while technical expertise matters, a hire's ability to demonstrate trustworthiness, and their willingness to learn, are what ultimately matter. Soft skills like reliability and adaptability play a key role.
Gab: Summarizes Fervil’s thoughts, highlighting that soft skills like trust and reliability are key for an SEO VA.
Fervil: Stresses the need for attention to detail in an SEO VA. While they don't have to be perfect, they must be diligent and thorough in their tasks. Missing out on details can be costly in SEO work, so being mindful of every aspect is crucial. He reiterates the key qualities he looks for: the ability to research, attention to detail, and being resourceful.
15:54 - 17:17
Gab: Asks whether the skills required for an SEO VA depend on the services offered by the agency (e.g., link building, technical SEO, content). He shares that he looks for specific skills based on the service his agency provides.
Gab: Mentions his own agency’s focus on link building, and how he hires individuals based on their expertise in that specific service.
Fervil: Responds that he believes that, while specific technical skills are important, it is also crucial that hires are teachable. He suggests that a good SEO team member should be eager to learn and be open to feedback.
Fervil: Elaborates on the importance of teachability. He mentions that in his journey of building a team, he faced challenges when certain hires weren’t aligned with the company’s values or were resistant to learning.
Gab: Acknowledges Fervil’s point, noting that when team members feel superior or uncooperative, it creates problems for the team dynamics.
Fervil: Shares that collaboration within the team is essential. Even if someone is technically skilled, a lack of teamwork can hinder the success of the whole project.
Gab: Asks if Fervil provides training for his team to ensure they’re aligned with the agency’s goals.
17:18 - 18:44
Fervi: Admits that due to time constraints (family commitments and running the agency), he’s not as hands-on in training as he would like. He focuses on internal communications and ad hoc support for his team members.
Gab: Asks if Fervil feels that training is something he could focus on in the future.
Fervil: Expresses that he’s not closing the door on providing more training in the future. He mentions that in 2025, he might consider focusing more on teaching and building resources for beginners.
Fervil: Talks about his experience with community-building efforts, like hosting SEO workshops and connecting with individuals who are interested in the SEO field. He has created avenues for internal team training and engagement, but acknowledges that it’s mostly informal at the moment.
Gab: Adds to this by explaining his approach to training, where he shares courses and guides to help his team learn specific tasks related to the agency’s work.
Fervil: Talks about how he plans to create courses and build learning platforms for beginners in SEO. He expresses that he’s not rushing but will eventually focus more on teaching once his agency operations are stable.
Gab: Acknowledges that creating courses can be a bit of a "double-edged sword" because it requires time and effort, but it’s a valuable long-term investment.
18:45 - 20:57
Gab: Notes that creating courses has its challenges, but it can be highly rewarding for both the creator and the learners.
Fervil: Explains that once his team is stable and he has time, he’ll focus on building a structured learning system where people can learn SEO from scratch, eventually leading them to work on projects.
Gab: Expresses his agreement with Fervil’s approach to building a team. He emphasizes that hiring the right people and aligning them with the agency’s goals is crucial for long-term success.
Gab: Asks about the structure of SEO operations within the team. Specifically, he wants to know if there are separate teams for content, link building, and technical SEO, and how responsibilities are divided.
Fervil: Explains that they have separate departments for different SEO tasks, such as content, technical SEO, on-page SEO, and link building. Each team handles its respective area, and they work in coordination to monitor the overall health of the site’s SEO. The content team focuses on content creation, both on-page and off-page, while the off-page team also handles link building and activities like PR and GMB management.
Fervil: Elaborates on the specific roles of the teams, noting that the technical and on-page teams are responsible for reporting and auditing, while the content team plays a crucial role in both on-page and off-page SEO. He mentions that they work together to monitor the health of a website and its SEO metrics.
20:57 - 24:48
Gab: Comments that many agencies adopt similar approaches, where tasks are divided across departments, especially when agencies scale up.
Fervil: Agrees with Gab's point and acknowledges that this approach is standard.
Fervil: Shares his perspective on the initial formation of their SEO team, noting that although they started with a more basic setup, they quickly adapted to dividing tasks by departments. He mentions that, particularly in larger US-based agencies, it’s common to have specialized roles.
Gab: Asks about the ease or difficulty of finding the right specialists, especially when scaling up a team.
Fervil: Responds that while they’ve hired specialists in content, technical SEO, and other areas, the challenges arise when they need to hire developers or other technical roles that aren’t needed on a daily basis. He mentions the difficulty of finding in-house developers and how some tasks are contracted externally.
Gab: Raises the point that agencies offering web design services likely need to have in-house developers to meet the demands of clients.
Fervil: Agrees and explains that for agencies with web design as their core service, having a developer is crucial. This is especially true for agencies focused on offering a comprehensive digital service.
Gab: Asks about the reward system at Fervil’s agency and how they motivate the team.
Fervil: Explains that their reward system is tied to performance and attendance. They celebrate the team’s achievements and milestones, such as successfully winning campaigns or maintaining excellent attendance records. The celebration focuses on team success rather than individual achievements.
Fervil: Talks about how the agency's open-door policy helps with maintaining a positive team culture. He adds that the team thrives when there’s clear communication and mutual support, which fosters a positive working environment.
24:53 - 27:52
Gab asks about how the team handles conflicts or disagreements.
Fervil: Shares that their approach to handling conflicts is proactive. They have clear guidelines and policies in place from the beginning, so team members are aligned on the company’s culture. He mentions they encourage open dialogue if conflicts arise, and they set up stages to address issues transparently.
Fervil: Emphasizes that they handle conflicts by creating a safe space for discussion. This allows team members to address issues before they escalate, maintaining a positive and collaborative culture.
Fervil: Continues to explain that if conflicts become more serious, they ensure that all parties involved have an opportunity to express their concerns in an open and respectful manner. He underscores that communication is key to maintaining smooth team dynamics.
Fervil: Discusses how communication breakdowns can happen within teams, particularly when performance drops or when there’s misalignment between departments. He stresses the importance of creating a structure to discuss issues and come up with solutions collaboratively.
28:01 - 32:36
Gab: Asks whether Fervil conducts 1-on-1 meetings with team members.
Fervil: Talks about the value of 1-on-1 meetings, which he learned to appreciate as an important leadership practice. He shares that these meetings help foster a shared vision for the agency and provide a chance to align team members with the agency’s goals. Fervil emphasizes that understanding personal aspirations is crucial to guiding each team member’s growth and ensuring the agency's overall success.
Gab: Thanks Fervil and appreciates the insights about agency building, particularly for those considering starting their own agency.
Fervil: Answers the final question by comparing the experience of transitioning from corporate or freelance work to building an agency. He suggests that the biggest shift is in mindset and understanding how to scale the business, especially in terms of the type of team and structure needed.
Fervil: Discusses the importance of having a clear vision for the agency from the outset. He advises potential agency owners to understand their goals and how they want to structure their team, whether aiming for a lean, high-impact agency or a larger one with more staff. He emphasizes that scalability is a challenge but that having a strong vision is essential for success.
Fervil: Concludes by explaining that building an agency is an ongoing challenge that requires dedication and a willingness to adapt. He advises that if someone is ready to take on this challenge, they should proceed with confidence, as it offers opportunities for growth and success.
32:37 - 40:28
Fervil: Introduces the topic, reflecting on how people start their journey by learning SEO, transitioning from affiliate marketing to becoming digital nomads who travel everywhere.
Gab: Responds affirming the idea of traveling everywhere.
Fervil: Talks about the common challenges people face when growing their businesses. He highlights the difficulties in handling clients and managing teams. He continues discussing the complexities of building an agency, emphasizing that building a business goes beyond just starting out. Initially, one might aspire to be a digital nomad, but later transitions to agency-building.
Fervil: Shares how people refine their skills over time and then use those skills in a different business model, such as e-commerce, where the focus is not on running an agency but on hiring people for specific tasks. He explains that before jumping into scaling a business, it's important to understand what you truly want. Scaling a business isn't easy, as it requires distributing tasks and managing different departments.
Fervil: Lists the different aspects of running a business: skills in PPC, content, on-page technical SEO, link building, client management, and project management. These are all different verticals and require attention when building a business. He mentions that once you start hiring and building a team, it’s crucial to groom your team properly. He also highlights the importance of the "hire slow, fire fast" approach.
Fervil: Shares a lesson learned—how to handle team dynamics and how one "rotten apple" in a team can affect the whole group. He also emphasizes the importance of understanding team hierarchies in business.
Gab: Briefly acknowledges the mention of hierarchies in businesses.
Fervil: Further explains the concept of team hierarchy and how communication becomes more complex with the growing number of team members. A strong communication structure is necessary to keep everything running smoothly. He continues, stressing that communication between team leaders and members should be clear and that feedback should flow in both directions to ensure smooth operations.
Fervil: He reiterates the importance of cross-communication within teams, pointing out the value of hierarchy in managing it effectively.
Gab: Reflects on the value of having a voice in other departments and not just within one’s own team. He mentions that without this, employees may feel sidelined.
Fervil: Discusses how sometimes, in larger companies, managers can fail to communicate well with their teams, which can cause issues.
Gab: Briefly refers to the challenges within corporate structures. He explains that while corporate setups may work for some, they can present obstacles for others, especially in a growing company.
Fervil: Acknowledges that traditional corporate structures might work for some, but for entrepreneurs looking for flexibility, it can be difficult to adopt that model.
Gab: Explains the necessity of having a clear vision before starting an agency. He emphasizes the importance of setting goals for the next 5–10 years and aligning your business activities with that vision. He talks about the ease of starting an agency but highlights the ongoing responsibility of managing client expectations, improving performance, and maintaining consistent output for clients.
Gab: Reiterates the importance of having a vision for the business. He emphasizes that while short-term goals are important, businesses should think long-term to ensure sustainable success.
Gab: Thanks Fervil for the valuable insights and lessons shared during the episode.
Fervil: Reciprocates, sharing that he enjoyed the conversation.
Gab: Comments that it was a relaxing discussion and that these types of conversations are essential for personal growth. Gab encourages listeners to reach out through Facebook if they want to learn more or engage in discussions. He also promotes their podcast and invites people to message them if they are interested in SEO or marketing services.
Gab: Continues promoting their work, inviting followers to reach out for more information.
Fervil: Talks about his business, Top White Label Marketing, which specializes in SEO outsourcing and partnering with freelancers and marketing agency owners. He invites people to connect with them if they need SEO help.
Gab: Expresses enthusiasm about their SEO services and mentions that followers can reach out to learn more about their offerings.
Fervil: Briefly acknowledges Gab’s point and adds some final thoughts.
Gab: Adds some playful remarks about visiting Fervil’s office, joking about "grinch" bags, and their visit to other locations.
Fervil: Responds humorously to Gab's comment.
Gab: Jokingly adds that listeners can join them for their meetings. Gab thanks the audience for listening and expresses hope that they meet again in person and continue discussing the latest trends.
Fervil: Thanks the listeners and ends his part.
Gab: Wraps up the episode by thanking listeners again and reminding them to follow the podcast on various platforms like Spotify, YouTube, and Facebook, where they frequently upload new content. Gab signs off, thanking everyone again, and mentions that they have many exciting topics and guest speakers lined up for future episodes.